Dual-wielding Pistols

GreatMazinkaiser · 09-19-2005, 11:53 PM

Is it a good thing to have?

Should it require a merit/skill?

gamermvp · 09-20-2005, 01:48 AM

I don't think it would be really worth it.

Unless you can access more then 2 standard pistols without looting another.
Then maybe. Otherwise whats the point.

I mean would it be like the CoF goes up but the rate of fire goes up?

I think maybe somethings like this if they are to come in at all should be in a later update.

I think it would be more a "speacial feature" that could be something to attract new players later or keep people interested.

Cogburn · 09-20-2005, 05:22 AM

Gotta not think PlanetSide for this.

Akimbo pistols have been the intended L3 pistol skill from day 1.

A pistol is designed as it is for battlefield use: a small weapon that can be easily carried or concealed. The ammo capacity of a pistol is limited by its size, which is dictated by its battlefield roll. [Aside: the clip of the Repeater and AMP is stupid]

The fact that we have 2 hands means that we can use 2 of them, if properly trained. I am an avid shooter and 4 years ago I purchased 2 Spanish FirstStar Plus 9mm pistols JUST because I wanted to try to be cool and use 2 9mm's at once. Firing pistols akimbo is NOT EASY but you CAN train yourself to do it. Now I'm not saying that I can walk around and spray 2 9's and hit what I'm aiming at, but I can say that I can absolutely see how someone COULD train themselves to be able to do so.

Furthermore, training yourself to do that on ONE kind of pistol is hard enough, much less 2 or 3 kinds. Just because I'm semi-decent with 2 9mm's doesn't mean I can use 2 .45s and expect anything close to the same results. I'd have to work out daily with weights on top of training with the pistols themselves to be able to control them accurately.

If you think of it from a skill perspective, that's one L3 Pistol Skill PER PISTOL. 90% of Level 3 Skills have 3 or more prerequisites. That puts Empire Specific Akimbo Pistols Skill at a minimum base cost of 4 Skill Slots. That's the same as loading all of Level 2 of the Rifle skill tree.

I think that if we follow a somewhat realistic approach towards both pistols and their use that the issues will indeed work themselves out in the end.

UGoBoy · 09-20-2005, 06:44 PM

The only thing about Akimbo pistols is that it's sort of impractical. Could you imagine trying to reload two VT pistols? Hope you have a third hand...

When/if it does go in as a skill, copy the Marathon games, and make each trigger fire a different pistol. It's a ton better than having auto-alternate, and is just a lot cooler :)

Cogburn · 09-21-2005, 04:41 PM

Holster one, reload the other... then holster that one so you can draw the opposite pistol... reload it... then draw the first pistol you reloaded. Reload would be a LONG time.

I like the idea of two fire buttons... you'd have a primary hand fire button (mouse0) and an offhand fire button. Hmmmm....

Kyraal · 09-21-2005, 07:46 PM

To me all firing is done most intuitively with the mouse buttons. Primary and secondary ones. This is a very personal thing, though, so no solution is going to work for all, but people just have to remap to suit them.

But my first thought is to map the second pistol to the secondary mouse button instead of zooming (if it was mapped to zooming / bringing the gun up to fire), as I'm not sure just how much zooming/focusing would be going on when wielding dual pistols. Cog?

Cl2v2r · 09-22-2005, 07:43 AM

Agreed, left and right mouse buttons would be the win for default. After all, pistols are less likely to have a secondary mode than any other weapon.

Cogburn · 09-22-2005, 07:15 PM

What button is what is kinda academic... beyond the fact that this thread did highlight that the "2nd Pistol Fire" button needs to be "double mappable" since it needs to be a convenient fire button, yet won't be used all the time.

abathur · 09-24-2005, 03:04 AM

Well. If you weren't a chode you could probably design "chaps" (not really, but you'd wear it on your outer thigh) with snap away ammo clips (attatched to the belt, a good amount of force in one direction breaks them off) Clips would have some good extension, so they're on your outer hips to allow for going prone and crouching without having problems. As long as you can discharge the clips with a single-hand you could presumably have guns designed to "guide" the clip in fairly well so that, as long as you were _still_ you could just slam the guns down on a clip on the "chap" and then "snap" the wrist left or right to detatch the base of the clip and be good to go.

Just to concept your way out of that pit.

Would seem large calibre weapons are going to be pretty problematic with dual use (unless we allow people to "train" until they're absolutely ripped. ) But I suppose there isn't a problem with letting them make an ass out of themselves and never actually hitting something.

Another reloading solution might be under-arm holsters that could allow both weapons to be holstered and the clips to be put in easier than I'd imagine loading a holstered weapon from the hip might be. Unless you want the awkward reload as another penalty. Personally I like decently powered sidearms, like in CS (though the deagle is a little silly since even with the COF on it you can almost count on a lucky shot) but that is problematic with cloaker classes roaming around having that much killing power. Perhaps depending on the suit system require some alternative-material pistol (non-metal weapon, non-metal projectiles) to function with the suit and reserving more lethal sidearms for heavy infantry. (that is to say, maybe we'd actually see some infantry using them instead of reloading the primary weapon.)

UGoBoy · 09-24-2005, 02:00 PM

If it comes down to it, maybe only the common pool pistol could be dual-fired. Making it a lighter-in-the-pants semi-auto clipfed would make it at least more believable than firing two Vachir hogleg uberevolvers.

MadCat360 · 09-26-2005, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abathur

Well. If you weren't a chode you could probably design "chaps" (not really, but you'd wear it on your outer thigh) with snap away ammo clips (attatched to the belt, a good amount of force in one direction breaks them off) Clips would have some good extension, so they're on your outer hips to allow for going prone and crouching without having problems. As long as you can discharge the clips with a single-hand you could presumably have guns designed to "guide" the clip in fairly well so that, as long as you were _still_ you could just slam the guns down on a clip on the "chap" and then "snap" the wrist left or right to detatch the base of the clip and be good to go.

There are actually special belt mag clips that do this in RL.

And I use dual M9's in Airsoft all the time, reloading is no problem (I don't even have to holster one). Just readjust your grip on your right gun and grasp the top of the magazine with your middle+ring and your thumb to pull it out off the pouch, then just drive it home into the left gun. Repeat a second time and you're done. It take twice as long, but the volume of fire benefit is a good tradeoff. The only problem is remembering where you dropped your magazines...

Aftiel · 09-27-2005, 12:32 AM

I think he meant "design" them for the game but I could be wrong. Either way it's a reloading path we could take with akimbo. *notes it down*

Cogburn · 09-27-2005, 04:22 PM

Its less realism and more balance.

The weapon spreadsheets are only now being developed. Graphs are only now being plotted. Whats important is that the weapons do the appropriate amount of damage over time without "crossing over" into another weapons balliwick of effectiveness.

At the risk of telling tales out of school, you're gonna have 2 pistols in your hand and it should ALMOST outperform the one shot per pull at the same range as far as damage goes, but be accordingly less accurate.

I want my dual TR pistols so I can look like John Chriton in FarScape.