Final Plotline Discussion

[Cogburn]

From the Codex Infinitum, 4254 AP, Vol. 1 Pg. 223:

[After the colonization of the planet Telluride,] commerce and manufacturing became centered on the vast mineral wealth that the planet provided. Altair with its own ample mineral resources could not compare to the purity and amount of rare materials found. Such was the beginning of the Diaspora. Humanity flocked to this new frontier and its promises of limitless wealth and opportunity. As The Order had maintained peace and prosperity for over 1,000 years, it went with them, providing the spiritual support and moral leadership that is its duty.

The addition of this second planet to the Sphere of Humanity was of course prophesied by its founder, known now only as Prophet. The Prophecy is as much a technical oddity as it is a religious artifact. Every 250 years since the death of Prophet his image has appeared over an enigmatic black cube in the Hall of the Order on Altair. Each time Prophet appears, he speaks Five Quatrains that will reveal the direction of The Order until his next appearance. It is in this manner that The Order has maintained its authority as a true voice of wisdom.

From the Codex Infinitum, 4254 AP, Vol. 4 Pg. 197:

Demal was added to the Sphere of Humanity in 2454. Its first explorers were amazed at its surprising variety of life, give that the entire surface was covered in a sprawling desert. In the middle of this desert were patches of life, hundreds of miles across, seemingly out of no where. Upon further exploration, an enormous cavern system was discovered that had been hollowed out through the planet during the partial cooling of its molten core. These caves had trapped the moisture in the atmosphere forming enormous underground oceans…

The Order did not wish to repeat its previous failures to interpret the warnings of Prophet. For 400 years it had seemed that The Order itself had lost its contact with its founder. With no mention of a new habitable planet mentioned in the last Appearance, The Order took initiative and began colonization of the underground landmasses on Demal. It was not an easy life at first, and many colonists were lost. It was only through the coercion of The Order that corporations and colonists continued to transform the rough world into what could be a home. Most of the early colonists became so agitated that The Order faced a possible rebellion. Precentor Theodore XIV instantly opened the coffers of The Order and had immediate supplies starlifted to Demal. Though this severely drained the capital of The Order, it provided enough time to allow for the discovery of what in the end saved both the colony and The Order: vast veins of pure diamonds. Though the possibility of rebellion never materialized, some colonists lost their Faith in The Order and it was never able to be restored…

From the Codex Infinitum, 4254 AP, Vol. 10 Pg. 451:

The discovery of Eridanus and colonization was correctly interpreted by The Order from the Quatrains of 2000 AP. It was a planet that was so similar to Altair that The Order wasted no time in colonization. Learning from its past mistakes, The Order also sent along its Centurions, warrior-priests that enforced Order commands at the point of a gun. There would be no sedition among new colonists this time. The outcry over the new military (which was kept a secret for 200 years) was dampened by its lack of necessity. Land and resources were so plentiful that people from all three planets in the Sphere of Humanity moved to settle there. It quickly it became a vast multi-cultural society as citizens from the other worlds arrived.

The Order created enormous complexes for infrastructure, research, and production. It seemed that a new golden age was about to dawn on Humanity.

From the Codex Infinitum, 4254 AP, Vol. 10 Pg. 451:

[The next appearance of Prophet in 2750] proved to be the Last Prophecy for The Order. There was no warning when scientists working for MDSC (MatsumoDyne Starlifter Corporation, a Telluride-based starlifter development company) were able to transport a 5 ton slab of steel from Telluride to Altair, a distance of over 100 light years, instantly. It was a side project of a few engineers that had some theories about adapting standard matter transporters to the matter inversion engines of common faster-than-light vehicles. For standard transporters, the distance an object can travel is inversely proportional to its weight; the larger the object, the shorter the distance. Transporter technology had progressed to sending large amounts of material across the surface of a planet, but to do so to another planet with the same expenditure in energy generated by a commercial starengine was quite literally light years ahead of its time.

Matter Transfer Gates (MTG) were massive structures that were constructed on all planets in the Sphere. Powerful energy shields were installed around the MTGs to protect them from weather, exposure, and sabotage by jealous competitors. MSDC quickly became the largest and most powerful corporation in the Sphere. To the less educated, the technology itself seemed to rival that which powered The Prophecy itself. Small cults formed around the study and manipulation of MSDC products. The phenomenon became so widespread that MSDC directors did not squash such sects, but began to foster them. Advanced MSDC research was slowly leaked into the hands of the working class of Telluride. The fascination with the various applications of transporter and beam laser technology eventually superseded that of The Order. The Order never noticed when it lost its grip over the minds of men.

In 2899 AP, CEO of MDSC Alexander Wantanabi appeared on TriVidNet news stations and announced to all of humanity that Telluride was leaving the Sphere and would no longer submit to the influence of The Order. His words coincided with the seizure of all Order assets on Telluride. MDSC forces warped through the MTGs around Altair and Eridanus and began to engage the Centurions. Demal was left out of the fray only by an agreement with the MDSC that they would send all members of The Order back through the MTG to Altair. Having no real defenses, Governor James Marbug of Demal agreed to the MDSC demands and banished The Order. After the last members of The Order were through the Altair MTG, MDSC warships destroyed it. Separated from the majority of its resources, The Order’s control over humanity was utterly destroyed in a matter of weeks.

It wasn’t until The Order had been expelled from Eridanus did the MDSC realize what they had been doing there. On the largest landmass Aeros, The Order had constructed in total secret the largest cannon ever devised. Nicknamed “The Devestator” it was designed to strike targets anywhere on the surface of Eridanus. It was by this means that The Order was to maintain control over its population. Unfinished, it was never utilized. The automated factories still produced the required parts based on a preset design, and the MDSC did not interrupt it as they studied their recently acquired possession.

From the Codex Infinitum, 4254 AP, Vol. 19 Pg. 21:

Cut off from humanity for a thousand years, The Remnant arose from the ashes of what was The Order in 4229 AP. The Altair MTG was reconstructed, and Remnant Centurions poured onto the surface of Eridanus. Immediately they engaged the MDSC, which basically ruled over known space in the absence of The Order. Armed with new and devastating weapons the Centurions quickly claimed several continents, including Aeros. Immediately Remnant bombers destroyed the weapon, before it could be used against them.

War raged across the surface of Eridanus and began to decimate the population. The citizens of Demal, now known as the Demal Free State, we appalled at the destruction. DFS military forces, armed with technology that was pirated from both The Order and the MDSC before The Schism, preceded to the planet in an attempt to spare the population from the armies that were fueled by a thousand year old grudge. The DFS evacuated what civilians were possible and began the construct Resonance Chambers where possible to store the consciousness of those who died so I new body could be constructed for them.

For a thousand years the technologies of The Order had been under the sole control of the MDSC. As brilliant as the minds of the MDSC were, they could not determine how the equipment operated. The first Remnant scientists were unable to discern the nature of the devices themselves, that information being long lost to memory during the Schism; it had become and enigmatic as The Prophecy Cube. The DFS commanders knew that the technology was far beyond their understanding, but to allow it to fall into the hands of either of the two armies would mean their eventual destruction. The Planetary Codex was still operational and still linked all of The Order facilities on the planet. This allowed some intelligence to be gained on the movements of their enemies. Care was taken to protect the Codex. Though mostly inscrutable, it contained all of the secrets of The Order.

As scientists from the three empires studied The Order technology they could determine only two things. It wasn’t broken… it was asleep, and that the empire that was able to utilize it would be victorious.

A few things.... Yes... its long. It's posted incomplete because I wanted to get discussion going on it. Let me take a moment to explain whats missing.

There are 3 "main characters" that are leaders of each of the empires. These leaders will be used to drive the plotline along further down the road. Most notable, the leader of the DFS is assisinated (and resonance chambers destroyed so he cannot be reconstructed) right before the storyline of the game opens... so that empire goes a little mad for revenge. The leaders of the Remnant and the MDSC build a relationship of absolute hate. They personally despies each other and begin to drive the war along for purely personal ambitions. The interplay between the two are modeled on the interactions of fictional personalities in RPGs like BattleTech/MechWarrior.... and Napoelon and Wellington. I feel that kind of interaction gives a game scope and life. That things can happen for darn good reasons that are beyond the control of the player... Kinda like life. :)

And there it is. A combination and modification of all the ideas presented. It contains the basics for planetary travel, a "raison de etre", and the basis for an empire-specific weapons system.

If you take the time to read it... I'd like your comments. There are probably some plotholes that need to be filled and some further (or less) explanation of certain events and objects mentioned. But thats what you are for. :)

[abathur]

I'm picky... and annoying. I see a good number of things in there that really go against some of the core things I envision for the game. Not that I'm in any position for my word to be final, but I don't like it. Not that I don't like some things in there, but as a whole, nopers. Most of all, I HATE the name telluride. Merely reading it in your post and thinking about it long enough to complain makes me want to scream.

I may revisit (and fill out) my plotline with some of this in mind (and with the goal of clarifying my position on some of these things and showing WHY I think they should be that way, rather than pretending my opinion is important enough to just state it and have it be so.) Outside of that I'm not sure I have the desire to write fiction under this plotline, not that I wouldn't still be good for some game mechanic concepts and general opinions.

[GreatMazinkaiser]

Shouldn't it be Alexander Watanabi?

Also, as far as feel and weapons, I want to confirm this...

Remnant == religious zealotry, probably some incendiary weapons of some sort, money and resources, very grim and evilish

MDSC == tech beasts, probably laser guns and the like, again much money/resources, somewhat secretive, obsessed with tech

DFS == the "good guys", value human life (to an extent), use a lot of slug throwers, not so much in the way of resources, want to get the devastator and shut it down permanently

Am I wrong?

[Aftiel]

Hmm ok. Define "As scientists from the three empires studied The Order technology they could determine only two things. It wasn’t broken… it was asleep, and that the empire that was able to utilize it would be victorious."

Is that the big gun or something else?

[Burntfire]

Shouldn't it be Alexander Watanabi?

Also, as far as feel and weapons, I want to confirm this...

Remnant == religious zealotry, probably some incendiary weapons of some sort, money and resources, very grim and evilish

MDSC == tech beasts, probably laser guns and the like, again much money/resources, somewhat secretive, obsessed with tech

DFS == the "good guys", value human life (to an extent), use a lot of slug throwers, not so much in the way of resources, want to get the devastator and shut it down permanently

Am I wrong?


I do believe you are correct

[Cogburn]

I wasn't too clear as to WHAT The Order's doomsday weapon was. I left that vague on purpose.

Telluride is just one of my favorite cities, so I just threw that in there. TBH, the names are less important to me than the meat of what occurs.

* World Controlling Theocracy Has Golden Age
* World Controlling Theocracy is usurped by Technocracy
* World Controlling Theocracy goes dormant only to return more viscious and out for revenge against Technocracy.
* A third group appears that thins both the WCT and the Technocracy are insane and must be destroyed
* World Controlling Theocracy leaves behind technology that no one truly understands other than that it still works and can be used as a weapon, though how is as of yet unclear

All of the empires are intended to be morally ambiguous. The DFS aren't necessarilly "good guys" because they do tend to go a little insane and vengefull when their leader is murdered.

Home planets are uninvadable at the outset and all combat occurs on Eridanus, which contains Order technology that is "up for grabs".

Abathur and I had a discussion the amounted to something along the lines that there are automated factories built by The Order that create portions of some doomsday weapon. Once every 30 days the peices are completed and the empires race to collect them, construct the doomsday weapon and fire it on their foes. Think of it like an orbital strike on crack. The weapon will have built in degredation, so that no empire can control the weapon beyond 30 days (one cycle) and that the weapon will not always be available even after contructed. There will be times when you dont have to worry about flaming death from above.

I think that in the end, we can all agree on the basic theme. Let's get the names and places sorted out and move on to more important things. ;)

We'll give it no later than ... say... Monday 8/29/05 at the latest and then we'll just make some decisions and move on.

[abathur]

Abathur and I had a discussion the amounted to something along the lines that there are automated factories built by The Order that create portions of some doomsday weapon. Once every 30 days the peices are completed and the empires race to collect them, construct the doomsday weapon and fire it on their foes. Think of it like an orbital strike on crack. The weapon will have built in degredation, so that no empire can control the weapon beyond 30 days (one cycle) and that the weapon will not always be available even after contructed. There will be times when you dont have to worry about flaming death from above.

I think that in the end, we can all agree on the basic theme. Let's get the names and places sorted out and move on to more important things. ;)

We'll give it no later than ... say... Monday 8/29/05 at the latest and then we'll just make some decisions and move on.


I can't. You're taking the plot in directions to setup game mechanics that I don't particularly care for. It isn't your fault, but after two years of having the PS devs take my ideas, bastardize them completely and then put them ingame--I don't care to watch it anymore (the above "discussion" is a perfect example of this.) It's your game, so I guess it's fine if it's your way or the highway, but I can already tell there would be plenty of arguments and friction if I continue working on this. Best of luck.

[Cogburn]

Throw out all the fictional hoopla and say what are the BASICS of the idea that you were going for.* I was pretty sure that I retained most of those ideas.

I've never said "My way or the highway."* What I am trying to do is give some direction to a fairly open discussion on a plot.

To be fair, you haven't stated what it is that you don't like other than "It's not what I wanted so I quit."* We wanted to create a plot that could be rich enough to actually have some bearing on gameplay.* PlanetSide proved you can do without it, but I thought it would set us apart.* The industry has already proven its not necessary.

I was hoping for a little more fruitful discussion than this, but if this is the only manner of response we'll just pick something arbitrary that suits the nature of a perpetual FPS and move on.

And to be quite frank, all of our ideas will end up bastardized in the final product. That's what a community project is.

[Kyraal]

Took me a long time to read through it all. It was heavy work even for a semi-avid reader of science-fiction litterature, such as myself :)

I enjoyed the basic premise of the story, and it mostly fills my requirements of a good plotline. It's got religion, technology, and it's got what seemed to be a more state/government centered aspect. I like your thinking with 3 main characters, the leaders of the factions, driving the storyline forward. I can't take a standpoint on the idea you had about gaining control over this superweapon every 30 days, as I can't imagine right now how this would impact the actual gameplay--how it would tip the scale.

Without going too much into the names. As you said, yourself, those are largely inferior of importance at this stage. MatsumoDyne Starlifter Corporation (MDSC). I like it. A corporation. Can have titles such as Administrator, President, CEO, etc.

// THOUGHT - discussed in depth in another thread? //
This brings up a thought which should go into a new thread, if discussedin more detail. Should we perhaps have faction-specific names on the clan/guild structures? Such as The Remnant's equivalent of a House, might be called an Order, which in turn is divided into Parishes? I think it's worth a thought. Could add a nice layer of depth into the game.

Back on track.

What is the Planetary Codex? Seems like it's a database of sorts, as it contains all the secrets of The Order. And it's linked via a lattice? Something named The Codex should always be a huge leather-bound paper book, though, in my opinion ;)

[Raborn]

I predict that, in the future, there will be books about this game :D

[abathur]

1) Single planetary system limits fun, variety and creativity. The MO for expansion is still limiting and is putting us in boxes that don't really serve a purpose at this point (unless we've got someone ready to start on terrain that I haven't noticed.)

2) I still don't buy humanity becoming more religious on the whole as technology and science increase. It goes against the logcal history of the world. (breaks suspension of disbelief)

3) Gate system is stale and done where something more creative and interactive would be in place

4) I'm not sure I see where the MDSC is getting the manpower and technology to expel The Order if the order is presumably fielding the technology for large automated construction facilities and a single cannon capable of hitting anywhere on the planet (Which requires some more suspension of disbelief/incredible physics and would more likely have to be a guided missile borne system to really have the capability of hitting anywhere on the planet.)

5) The version of the doomsday device proposed here removes much of the fun and persistance of the system I suggested. Boring, lacks creativity. What's with the automagical degradation of the weapon?

6) Many thousands of years after figuring out how to teleport matter 100 lightyears instantly and we're still using solid state projectile based weaponry? (suspension of disbelief)

7) How does MDSC kick out a social order and presumably take over as some sort of government without a serious uprising (unless the entire planet is mindless clones working in MDSC factories)? I get how the order loses its touch here, I'm just not sure I see how people who left a social order for some sort of free-thinking reasons immediately accept some new one world corporate order...

8) How does demal, with no real defenses, forcibly remove the order?

9) Presumably the MTGs are a two way system, how does the reconstruction on one-side enable transportation to the other? If the MDSC is so incredibly powerful and advanced(+brilliant,) why is this loophole left open?

10) What orifice is the DFS pulling respawning and consciousness storying technology out of when they seem to be using scavenged weapon technology from over 1500 years before? Especially when the spawning technology does not seem to have any precedence up until this time? Can't make more advanced weapons than they've stolen from 1500 years ago but they're somehow going to set about making bodies?

11) I'm a picky little princess who signed on to write the plot, with the intention of actually writing the goddamn plot. I was looking forward to it, and likewise have been disappointed.

12) Ruins/negates multiple fun plotline and gameplay elements I was already planning out.

13) Fair enough, you didn't say your way or the highway. It just FEELS like that. (perhaps this is just the psychological effect of reading "I know what I'm doing so shut up and enjoy it." several times a day--not that I don't think the quote is amusing or appropriate. )

14) I'm having fun with numbers by this point.

15) I think if we're going to democratically make every idea a bastardization of all submitted concepts we're going to end up with few people fully satisfied and plenty of continuity issues. It's one thing to choose Wire1's command system over the others, place him in charge of it and then make a few tweak suggestions as a group. It's another to take Wire1's command system, change 70% of it, post it and say this is how it will be. Savvy? I think we'll ned up with too many chiefs when amalgamating every concept idea. Multiple people have a personal vested interest in which direction it goes because it is in-part their idea. It doesn't become about helping one person's idea improve, it's about a tug of war to go as much in your direction as you can. (IMO at least!) Division of labor, not everyone clusterfucking on the same task. It might be fun to write a story on a forum with everyone contributing a sentence at a time... but it's usually far more amusing than it is a good solid story.

16) Admittedly, I misread the bit about how respawning would be handled, I was reading it as a copy-paste of the planetside system.

17) I told you I could and likely would be a picky bastard. I wasn't trying to disappointing you in not enumerating every little thing I dislike, I was trying to spare you the criticism.

18) Names/people are fine in the history of the game, but for faction leaders in the current game it's going to make little sense without an automated system for handing down orders from above. Great, I've got these people leading my faction, why the fuck do we never hear from them? Why is it someone who spent exp on command abilities is in charge of everything when it seems like we've got some kind of intact superceeding command structure? Is my leader hiding in a hole in the desert with messed up hair, smelling of urine and dust?

19) I was setting up fiction around getting players into the game (recruitment shuttles from earth, explanation for them having a customizable avatar in appearance,) disappointed that this is being ruined, goes back to me being a princess who is watching fun/unique idea after fun/unique idea go out the window.

20) Seems against the previous characteristics of the DFS to go crazyfuckeduppsychovengefuldumpsterslut on both factions when they were too pussified to stand up to the MDSC initially. Especially since presumably only one assassinated their leader, and only the remnant would seem to have motivations to do so (and even in this case their motivations amount to a 1500 year old grudge for being kicked out.) I'm not sure I see WHY either faction would bother assassinating the leader of a pacifist faction until they were done with each-other and had landlust.

21) Is the army they're using to go crazyfuckeduppsychovengefuldumpsterslut the same one they didn't have but used to kick out The Order and have maintained over 1500 years of peace with the MDSC (maybe the peace is while they still have 1500 year old weapons?)

22) Why is the DFS dumb enough to steal weapons from the MDSC when they were too pussified to stand up to them? It only really makes sense for them to have confiscated the weapons of the order.

23) Where do the weapons the imaginary DFS army uses to kick out The Order and confiscate their weapons come from?

24) The bit you posted/bastardized from our discussion (which at least from my end didn't go "along that line" (which kindof implies that you're paraphraising what we talked about)) seems to not make a lot of sense. Automated factories are still making these parts from 1500 years before? Why aren't there warehouses full of spares? Sounds like it's going to grow stale very fast as static as it is, too.

25) I was so close I figured I'd end up here. Maybe it needs more cowbell. Maybe the theocracy leaving around mystical technology that the fucking technocrats can't figure out. Perhaps some fruity oddball religious artifacts...

26) A massive globally dominant shit on everyone work for us and sell us your souls corporation is in all likelihood going to have dick in common with a technocracy.

27) The Remnant, being separated for 1500 years is going to likely have nothing like the weapons that the DFS ripped off from them before they left. Nor will they be anything like those of the MSDC unless they're doing a lot of very recent stealing, which seems pretty stupid if the MSDC is as powerful and the DFS is as pacifist as we've been implying. (so this twist isn't saving any development time and is only going to place us in an unnecessary box that their weapons have to be predecessor weapons to pilfered technology rather than allowing the weapons to be guided by their desired use under the tactical and strategic motivations of the faction.
...

[Cogburn]

;D

The reason this thread is entitled "Final Plot Discussion" is because I have reworked the best thoughts from the ideas submitted.* It is to give us one common thought around which to work which is comprised of the best of what has come before.* It is meant to be the framework of the discussion for what will be, when we are satisfied and have compromised and are finished with this thread, the plot of our game.* All that being said, let's get to work.

Some things I'll address in order, other things I'll just group together because I feel they can be related.

First lets go through the major plotholes you found.


2)* I still don't buy humanity becoming more religious on the whole as technology and science increase. It goes against the logcal history of the world. (breaks suspension of disbelief)

4) I'm not sure I see where the MDSC is getting the manpower and technology to expel The Order if the order is presumably fielding the technology for large automated construction facilities and a single cannon capable of hitting anywhere on the planet (Which requires some more suspension of disbelief/incredible physics and would more likely have to be a guided missile borne system to really have the capability of hitting anywhere on the planet.)

7) How does MDSC kick out a social order and presumably take over as some sort of government without a serious uprising (unless the entire planet is mindless clones working in MDSC factories)? I get how the order loses its touch here, I'm just not sure I see how people who left a social order for some sort of free-thinking reasons immediately accept some new one world corporate order...

9) Presumably the MTGs are a two way system, how does the reconstruction on one-side enable transportation to the other? If the MDSC is so incredibly powerful and advanced(+brilliant,) why is this loophole left open?

27) The Remnant, being separated for 1500 years is going to likely have nothing like the weapons that the DFS ripped off from them before they left. Nor will they be anything like those of the MSDC unless they're doing a lot of very recent stealing, which seems pretty stupid if the MSDC is as powerful and the DFS is as pacifist as we've been implying. (so this twist isn't saving any development time and is only going to place us in an unnecessary box that their weapons have to be predecessor weapons to pilfered technology rather than allowing the weapons to be guided by their desired use under the tactical and strategic motivations of the faction.


What I had in mind was a religious caste that had controlled humanity for a long period of time based on super-advanced technology and some ongoing prophecy.* Where that super-advanced technology came from is left vague intentionally as to be included in the form of a series of in-game events where the players learn more about the history of The Order and the things it left behind.* But I digress...

Humanity then advanced along to a point where technology and reason were strong enough to throw off the bonds of The Order.* Similar to the Renaissance, but in our case at the point of a gun.* Perhaps in my haste I did not clarify the level of secrecy, planning and difficulty with which the MDSC pulled that off.

In re-reading what I wrote, I left out something HUGE that is incredibly important.* When the Altair MTG is destroyed, it causes feedback which destroys every other MTG.* Since the MDSC MTG was located on thier home planet, their culture was nearly destroyed.* The Order was destroyed because it could no longer get the resources it needed, which you had mentioned you agreed with.* This forces both of the major empires to rebuild thier industry and knowledge.* Basically, they were so smarty-pants they managed to almost wipe eachother out.* Those left on the planet of Eridanus basically died off because most of their resources were destroyed by the war.

Furthermore, I think the 1,000 years of dormancy is a bit excessive.* Perhaps 300 years... Enough time that the cataclysm can be dealt with and civilizations partly rebuilt.* Bascially, a Dark Age.* When the lights come back on, everyone goes back at it, but they are not longer the super-beasts they once were.* Not only that, but there's some of their old shit lying around and no one has a clue as to what it does.* But they do know it still works.

Ok... What does it do?* Build a doomsday gun?* Make them mutants?* Provide new weapons?* Speak into thier heads?* I dunno... Could be anything... What SHOULD it do?


20) Seems against the previous characteristics of the DFS to go crazyfuckeduppsychovengefuldumpsterslut on both factions when they were too pussified to stand up to the MDSC initially. Especially since presumably only one assassinated their leader, and only the remnant would seem to have motivations to do so (and even in this case their motivations amount to a 1500 year old grudge for being kicked out.) I'm not sure I see WHY either faction would bother assassinating the leader of a pacifist faction until they were done with each-other and had landlust.

21) Is the army they're using to go crazyfuckeduppsychovengefuldumpsterslut the same one they didn't have but used to kick out The Order and have maintained over 1500 years of peace with the MDSC (maybe the peace is while they still have 1500 year old weapons?)

22) Why is the DFS dumb enough to steal weapons from the MDSC when they were too pussified to stand up to them? It only really makes sense for them to have confiscated the weapons of the order.

23) Where do the weapons the imaginary DFS army uses to kick out The Order and confiscate their weapons come from?


The DFS was meant to be the 50 lb weakling that finally grew a set of balls.* My potrayal of this is somewhat lacking at best, incomplete at worst.* A total replacement of this concept is in order.* The problem that I had with your initial concept of this (the CARTEL) was that it forced players of this empire into guerilla-style tactics, by your own description.* I wanted to avoid this and make the empire more of a "These two guys are nuts and we need to start looking out for ourselves"* My implementation isn't the best either, but for this we need to find a middle ground.

Here's a thought.... Given that Eridanus was cutoff from everything...* Perhaps the 3rd Empire should be those who managed to survive on the planet.* When the other two empires show up and begin to go at it, this 3rd Empire is pissed off because this place is their home, and these two asshats were the ones that fucked it up in the first place.* That also leaves the question of "What the hell happened to Demal?" a possibility for additional plot in-game. It's just a thought... but something does need to replace the DFS.


3) Gate system is stale and done where something more creative and interactive would be in place

19) I was setting up fiction around getting players into the game (recruitment shuttles from earth, explanation for them having a customizable avatar in appearance,) disappointed that this is being ruined, goes back to me being a princess who is watching fun/unique idea after fun/unique idea go out the window.


Given the clarification above where the gate system is destroyed, what replaces it?* How does humanity reconnect itself and* how long does it take for them to do so.* Your fiction and/or ideas for player entry and movement about the universe can easily fill that blank.* What is your replacement?


14) I'm having fun with numbers by this point.


I'm having fun with quotes.


15) I think if we're going to democratically make every idea a bastardization of all submitted concepts we're going to end up with few people fully satisfied and plenty of continuity issues. It's one thing to choose Wire1's command system over the others, place him in charge of it and then make a few tweak suggestions as a group. It's another to take Wire1's command system, change 70% of it, post it and say this is how it will be. Savvy?* I think we'll ned up with too many chiefs when amalgamating every concept idea. Multiple people have a personal vested interest in which direction it goes because it is in-part their idea. It doesn't become about helping one person's idea improve, it's about a tug of war to go as much in your direction as you can. (IMO at least!) Division of labor, not everyone clusterfucking on the same task. It might be fun to write a story on a forum with everyone contributing a sentence at a time... but it's usually far more amusing than it is a good solid story

13) Fair enough, you didn't say your way or the highway. It just FEELS like that. (perhaps this is just the psychological effect of reading "I know what I'm doing so shut up and enjoy it." several times a day--not that I don't think the quote is amusing or appropriate. )


My quote was meant to go w/ the boobies that were on display previously....* It does kinda take a different tone now.* It was meant sexually, although I have used it on C-Chat once or twice ;)

Furthermore, this is not a democracy of ideas.* It is an open forum for the discussion of concepts and gameplay.In the final analysis, I am asking that until you are convinced one way or another by my decisions, that you trust what I say is "final".* I will give direction and purpose to discussions, and when we have agreed on idea, close the discussion and begin drafting how to implement it technically.* Why am I qualified to do this?* I have developed intricate web-based games in this manner twice over.* The most successful of which lasted for 2 years, had over 250k lines of code and 2.5k ACTIVE players.* While I've never developed a game on the scale that we propose, I do know a little of how to direct general discussions on gameplay and development.*

But I also know that I am not perfect, which is why I need assistance from the community to make this a reality.* My ideas are flawed and incomplete.* This is NOT a cult of personality.* I have tried for 2 years to build a TEAM to create a game like this.* Most have fallen by the wayside or been simply overwhelmed or frustrated by the task.* The TEAM, I believe, will make itself apparent soon enough.

Also, SmokeJumper has let us know he is watching. :)* He asked to see the design document when it is complete so he can review (and not steal or I will sue) our ideas.* It's probable that he is unable to comment publicly due to NDAs, but know that someone who has produced TWO successfull games that most of us have played will be reviewing our work.*

All in all, who has the final say?* Everyone.* But I reserve the right to say when a discussion is closed, or to redirect discussions to some sort of decision.* Beyond the obvious, that's what I feel I can contribute best to this project.* We'll have to work on relationships along the way, but as long as you are willing, so am I.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________

ALL THAT BEING SAID, unless I've missed something, here's what we need to fix with this idea.

* Replace the DFS completely or modify its background to something that isn't quite so unrealistic.
* Replace the gate system and player entry into the game
* What does the active yet (at this point) unusable MDSC and Order equipment do when its fully operational?
* Rename Telluride
* Rework the details of the MDSC/Order conflict so that it is more contiguous.

One other thing...* The plotline includes a method for the addition of new planets, though it is fairly weak.* At this point I would like to constrain the game to one planet with a bunch of continents.* As the game progresses, we could add entire new planets with new continents on them.* This opinion is borne from two thoughts: 1) I don't want one-continent-per-planet like post-Bending PlanetSide and 2) I'd like to keep the scale of this game something reasonable, at least until we have something solid that works.

This is a STARTING POINT.* It is NOT THE FINAL IDEA.* But this IS the final discussion.* Start with THIS idea; rework it, remold it, fill in the blanks and let's get it done.*

When this thread ends, we will have our plotline.

[abathur]

(in order, because I don't have as much fun quoting)

1) Perhaps it is not the best of what has come before if the result is riddled with plotholes and continuity problems.

2) Technology is the product science. Science has been the bane of religion. The more people rely on science, the less they have relied on religion. We're far from this advanced and religion is already significantly less pervasive in America than it was 200 years ago. In fact, as science accelerates it would seem the secularization of society has intensified. Additionally, we're still talking about a _company_ kicking out a pervasive social organization. Something (if existing for thousands of years) everyone alive has lived and died under. No matter how secretive you are, where do you get the clout to do this? Microsoft is quite the corporation--could you see them "kicking out" the southern baptist church? And we're just talking about a piddly little small portion of the population religion. Not a single religion pervasive to the point that it controls most of all known humanity.

It wasn't the shipping industry in the America's that overthrew British rule--it was the people, the citizens, the society itself.

3) Right, pretty big. And the people left who almost died off but stole weapons and have an imaginary army are now around tryng to save the poor citizens (of which there probably aren't many since they should have been almost all gone too.) We've got this big long codex with all of this detailed information yet we have people forced to go back to page one and rebuild? (who owns the codex, anyways?)

4) Yes, 1000+ years is excessive. I'm still questioning the long-stolen weapons being all that functional after 300 years. Even the insurgents in iraq are fighting with stuff less than 30-40 years old.

5) Could work, but it likely is going to result in a ragtag bunch instead of l33t 4rmyd00ds w1th t3h k3wl 4rm0rzshift1

6)As for entry to game and planets: I had us setup with a dismal situation on earth that lone survivalist youth were leaving on trade corporation recruitment ships that service all three empires in numbers. For me, humanity didn't have to "reconnect." I had no plans for warpgates located on planets but provided for several interplanetary transportation methods:

- consciousness broadcasting (probably requires 1. a facility capable of broadcasting and 2. a facility capable of recieving. This would be a rapid method of transportation from sanctuary and certain bases on every planet to any given planet--given that you have the recieiving base.

- trade corporation subspace tunneling transports fly frequently between spaceports on the varying planets (the whole bit in the fiction about the trade corporation stepping off its alliance with the Beaufort group in favor of making cash off servicing the conflicting factions) These spaceports I would have loved to had in space, though I'm also picturing other planetary designs that could somewhat work out for such a thing (well, really I would have loved to vary it with some floating in space, some on the face of a nearby moon, and some on the planets themselves.)

- user piloted subspace tunneling transports (the fun part) allowing for flight from spaceport to parts-unknown. On leaving the atmosphere and kicking on the subspace tunneling drive, the pilot would have to attempt to fly through some sort of abbreviated system to get to his location, doing so faster when he stays in the center of the tunnel (skill based.) Corporation space tunneling transports are of an average speed due to their size preventing them from riding the true middle of the tunnels. User piloted ships holding maybe a few squads and a handful of vehicles however can (with a skilled pilot) rapidly transport between planets and (true to gal) fly in at their own location and drop on the planet. In reality however, getting this to work may present some game engine limitation problems... Should be possible for the craft to land in really open areas, but mostly at spaceports. Otherwise, rapid high altitude jumps should be possible (just inside the atmosphere.) These could also be skill-based allowing players to "skydive" downwards towards the target of their choosing and necessitate not screwing it up yourself but also open doors for things like flying straight towards a lake near an objective at high speeds and only parachuting near the end to slow down enough to lessen the water impact. (parachute from high up and you'll be easily noticed)

7) Right, go along with it until I like it or hate it. Perhaps I haven't solo created a game before, but I'm not fully uninitiated. I've done subclass fiction and design for a MUD I play on, along with area fiction and design (ultimately hundreds of lines of room, npc, item descriptions with the care taken to ensure continuity over the area, ensure that all things mentioned as being in a room are interactive with the user, that none of the room descriptions mention things that may not always be there, or in that way, ensuring that descriptions are not stale and recycled but unique--even if a given room is almost identical to the last and that room descriptions never mention the player. I've written several page short-stories around such areas to be used as documentation for the creation of the areas. (not to mention proposals for several systems that have been bastardized into things in planetside today such as the BWG/no home continent system, facility domes, support EXP... the degree of bastardization on those concepts varies ;) We definitely need guidance for the discussions, but to insinuate that I'm uninitated when I actually have a good bit of rather tedious detail oriented experience in insuring the logicality, completeness, continuity, richness, uniqueness and overall tone of fiction (for games or not) would be a bit forward.

8) You may have a TEAM without I, but you sure as hell don't have one without ME :p (or met, or meat, or tea, or mat, or met, or eat, or mate, or tame but I digress) In all seriousness--a team doesn't mean uniformity in thought, just uniformity in goal.

9)I was hoping Dave would come by and have a looksee, maybe even share his intimate knowledge of not only creating an MMOFPS but also intimate knowledge of plotlines and planetside's game-mechanics. Hell, I was suggesting we ASK him to drop by. Arguements imply passion. I'm sure Dave knows all too intimately about fighting for what you believe a game should or shouldn't be.

10) Ultimately(all that being said,) it isn't my place to take someone elses fiction and write all into and out of it (especially not if it's going to read cohesively.) I've already posted a long list of suggestions. This is your fiction of our ideas, so this is your fiction to correct. (I'm not a janitor, I'm a writer--I just clean up my own messes.)

11) Perhaps not a single continent per planet, however, a variety of planets (and moons, and asteriods, etc) opens up more avenues for varied gameplay and experience. The bending was a disaster--multiple planets if they'd actually done it right could have been brilliant (I loved seeing each with its own "feel" after new skydomes and fog colors/lvls.)

12) Likewise, when I stop bitching you know you've got something good, or I've given up hope. Perhaps it's easy enough agreeing and disagreeing with my opinions but I have spent a fair amount of time critiquing other writers short-fiction and poetry. Maybe I don't always agree with everyone, but I do have some experience in determining what I want to bitch about.

[abathur]

13) I believe we're experience what I noted as a potential problem with house/company structure in combining multiple people who are used to and possibly even out to lead themselves. And this is just a couple of us.

[Cogburn]

Back to the drawing board. ;)* This idea sucks.... and isn't worth cleaning up.

I am just getting the feeling that we are thinking too much about backstory...* What I am sure of is the way that we are approaching this is getting us nowhere.* Let's attack this a different way.* Let's create our empires first, and then we can create the conflicts between them.

We know we want 3 independant cultures and governements, a history for each can be built as we go along... but we still all agree on 2 of the three empires... The Religious Nutballs and The TechnoGeeks.* For the Third Empire...* Why not keep it simple and steal from history.* Why not just a government modeled after Czarist Russia.* It's at least a style that hasn't been overused.

We'll focus our development efforts initially on one planet, but always with the intent to add new ones later.
__________________________________________________ ________________

EMPIRE #1 - The TechnoGeeks
---------------------------------------
One incarnation was the Beaufort Technocracy, but the name... makes me wince.* I think its "Beaufort" more than "Technocracy".* I'm not sure if I'd like to be a part of that empire.* I like what you were going for with something that has little actual bearing or necessity... to them its just not important.

Here are some suggestions:
Monroe Consortium
Annodex Technodyne (got that from an internet techie word generator)
Fulstrum Cabal

Weapon Technology of Choice: Beam Laser
Characteristics of Weaponry: Range based on "wattage" (higher wattage = higher range), damage degredation based on "focus" (tighter beam focus = more damage), overall the most accurate, recycle between shot varies with "wattage" (higher wattage = higher recycle between shot)
Ammo Type: Energy Cell

Common Reference Description of Empire "Look and Feel": Star Trek The Next Generation

EMPIRE #2 - The Religious Zealots
-------------------------------------------
I still like the idea of The Remnant.* Perhaps our Remnant is what is left of the empire that ruled before the other 2 came on the scene.* Again, fiction can really come later to fill the void, if not revealed through IN GAME fiction.* What we are most concerned about is how the empires are currently interacting.

Weapon Technology of Choice: Projectile
Characteristics of Weaponry: Fastest RoF and largest clip sizes.* Medium accuracy and damage.
Ammo Type: 10mm

Common Reference Description of Empire "Look and Feel": Roman Empire

EMPIRE #3 - The Czarists
--------------------------------
For lack of a better term.* It's not quite a monarchy, but not quite a democracy or parlimentary system.* The leaders are hereditary but must answer to a Senate that was appointed by the previous ruler.* Senators have thier jobs for life.* The reason this is not the Romanesque empire is because I feel that the term "Centurion" is a good fit for a religious footsoldier.

Here are some suggestions for a name:
Federate Worlds Alliance
League of Free Worlds
Commonwealth Alliance (my favorite)

Weapon Technology of Choice: Plasma
Characteristics of Weaponry: High damage and slow moving projectiles.* Small splash damage (1-3m), RoF and clipsize variable.
Ammo Type: Plasma Cell

Common Reference Description of Empire "Look and Feel": Czarist Russia or the Centauri from Babylon 5

__________________________________________________ ________________________

The basic story is this:* These 3 empires control planets all over the galaxy.* Picture a pie chart with three slices.* Each slice contains a hundred worlds belonging to each empire.* In the center of the slices are planets that are constantly under assault from one faction or all three.* This is the frontline for border disputes between these nations.* To keep things simple, our game will focus INITALLY on the combat occuring on ONE planet in this Disputed Zone.

This greatly simplifies the structure of the game universe, while still allowing for rich fiction to fill in the blanks as far as how each empire formed, the interplay between the leaders of these empires, etc.

I want to keep your ideas for interstellar travel.* That fits this train of thought like a glove.* User piloted transports will not be a reality until we expand the game beyond a single planet, but it still 100% fits this new theme.

Marry the ideas of a Conciousness Broadcast and a Reconstruction Chamber and there's our "why you live forever" explanation.* Not only that, but in game mechanics can include spawning anywhere that is linked, since you can "broadcast" your consiousness there directly.* Just a brainstorm there :)

Now battle rages on this planet for a while.* The first few months of the game are just straight I'm gonna come and kick your as and ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.* Then something happens... Something is discovered, invented, or somesuchshit that forever changes the reason of "Why we fight".* It's no longer about turf, its about .... this new thing and what it means for each empire.

I guess my overall point is.... Let's Keep It Simple Stupid, but let's not duplicate the mistakes of PlanetSide and tie our hands with a bad plot with a worse implementation.*

Simple, appealing, expandable, and incomplete.

Thoughts?

P.S. I just read crisko's post (http://www.markovforums.com/SMF/index.php?topic=2462.0), and this is what I'm referring to. Let's setup a plot that is PURPOSEFULLY underdeveloped. Just set the scene and immerse the player in the war.

[Cogburn]

13) I believe we're experience what I noted as a potential problem with house/company structure in combining multiple people who are used to and possibly even out to lead themselves. And this is just a couple of us.


When it comes to this I think you are just going to have to trust me. There are several game currently that successfully employ this exact kind of player-created command structure. It's not my idea... It's one that I've seen work more than once in games already on the market.

:)

[abathur]

Marry the ideas of a Conciousness Broadcast and a Reconstruction Chamber and there's our "why you live forever" explanation. Not only that, but in game mechanics can include spawning anywhere that is linked, since you can "broadcast" your consiousness there directly. Just a brainstorm there Smiley

I'm still in love with the concept of body farms.

I think you're onto something with laying down the basis of things, but perhaps jumping ahead a little...

Part of the problem I'm having here is (it's a personality trait really): I like to play with things, ponder them multiple ways, toy with them, pencil things in until something works. Perhaps we're on the same page, but it FEELS like you're trying to ink it in, and that makes me FEEL like I'm being stuffed into a box. Now I FEEL like I have to go along with the great cszars of russia who like plasma a lot. ;)

I guess I can trust you on the command structure, though I'm not sure I see the inherent problem with leaving it open to the groups and allowing them to make that choice for themselves.

That said, we'll focus on our groups, on giving them a cohesive reason to fight, on giving ourselves a good solid intro, and then, in that context, start coming up with weapons concepts and check them against the goals of the group, rather than laying that out beforehand. (ex. it's perfectly possible for the technocrats to have some rather fun applications of common technology in addition to beam weapons, but if we think, "beam weapons" we'll get "beam weapons." Wheras if we go to the mat thinking "really cool tripped out advanced shit that obviously involves intelligence, creativity and could promote unique tactics" we don't really feel like we're in a box, as much as pointed in a direction?

[Aftiel]

EMPIRE #2 - The Religious Zealots
-------------------------------------------
I still like the idea of The Remnant. Perhaps our Remnant is what is left of the empire that ruled before the other 2 came on the scene. Again, fiction can really come later to fill the void, if not revealed through IN GAME fiction. What we are most concerned about is how the empires are currently interacting.

Weapon Technology of Choice: Projectile
Characteristics of Weaponry: Fastest RoF and largest clip sizes. Medium accuracy and damage.
Ammo Type: 10mm


Ammo type should not be limited to one type, that's just ghey IMO. Bullets, yes. One caliber, no.

7.62 (all rifles, machine guns, etc)
9/10mm (pistols/SMGs)

That keeps it fairly simple but not retarded in the actual sense that rifle type rounds have more power and range whereas pistol type rounds are smaller charge and shorter range.


Weapon Technology of Choice: Plasma
Characteristics of Weaponry: High damage and slow moving projectiles. Small splash damage (1-3m), RoF and clipsize variable.
Ammo Type: Plasma Cell


Slow moving and splash leads to the lasher empire. Either fast projectiles (but not many of them) and some splash (2m tops IMO, that's 6ft or w/e), or slow but no (maybe .5m) splash. I want people shooting me to have to aim instead of guess where I'll be (slow) and them having to hit 9 feet away and still damage/kill me makes me a sad panda.

So other then weapon bitching I think the new very simple idea is good to go.

[abathur]

EMPIRE #3 - The PIRATES (ARRRRR)
--------------------------------
For lack of gentler words, they rape, pillage, burn and go ARRRRR.

Here are some suggestions for a name:
ARRRRR
Matey
Scurvy Bastards (my favorite)

Weapon Technology of Choice: Cannon!
Characteristics of Weaponry: High damage and slow moving projectiles. Small splash damage (1-3m), RoF and clipsize variable.
Ammo Type: Cannon Ball

Common Reference Description of Empire "Look and Feel": Johnny Depp from that movie with those pirate dudes.

[Cl2v2r]

Heh, I like the pirates. 'This chair be high, says I.'

I dislike slow moving projectiles also. I'd rather they weren't in there, get a proper suppression weapon instead, because that's what this one will become due to it's inherent inaccuracy.

As for ammo, I think turf all the specifics. Take Ab's idea from whichever thread it was, about having 4 non empire specidic ammo boxes. Based on the weapons size/damage they use an appropriate size box.

Nothing worse than going, <insert numbers here>mm? That wouldn't work, wouldn't be able to do that, why would they bother... etc etc.

Otherwise I think we're on the right track.

[Cogburn]

Alright... we're in the right direction now.

To clarify: Plamsa simply means non-beam laser energy weapons.* We can dump the splash damage and speed up the projectiles to normal bullet speed and a slow RoF and large CoF over time, but overall more powerful than projectile weapons shot-per-shot.... An energy based version of NC weapons, without the hitscan instagibness of a shotgun empire, or the skill-nerfing splash damage of the lasher.

About the EMPIRE #3 (The Government Empire to borrow a phrase from Kyraal):* Russians were just something I threw out there that was not overused in the sci-fi genre.* To be honest, pre-WWI German Kaiser-style would work just as well.If the Crazy Ivan's (oooo, in game nickname?8)) aren't suitable to you... What would you replace them with?* I feel that the third empire should be "regal"... A line of intergalactic kings.... Perhaps a feudal european style?* Feudal Japan?* China?* Like I said, just trying to find some kind of theme that hasn't been done to death, yet still appealing.* What common frame of reference can you present that best stylizes what you envision as our 3rd Empire?

For instance for the Remnant... Perhaps thiers is a dark, gothic religion like the Necromongers in Chronicles of Riddick.* I'd play that empire just because they were just straight badasses like that, regardless of the religious overtones. :)

But all in all we agree on the concepts behind Empires #1 and #2.* We need to pick a name for our Technocracy.* Put your thinking caps on and let's hear it. :)

[Cogburn]

EMPIRE #3 - The PIRATES (ARRRRR)
--------------------------------
For lack of gentler words, they rape, pillage, burn and go ARRRRR.

Here are some suggestions for a name:
ARRRRR
Matey
Scurvy Bastards (my favorite)

Weapon Technology of Choice: Cannon!
Characteristics of Weaponry: High damage and slow moving projectiles.* Small splash damage (1-3m), RoF and clipsize variable.
Ammo Type: Cannon Ball

Common Reference Description of Empire "Look and Feel": Johnny Depp from that movie with those pirate dudes.


ROFL... the cannonball gun from Serious Sam...

And people bitch about the Jackhammer.... :-\

[Cl2v2r]

Y'know, just because a social group is scientific, doesn't mean they aren't romanticists also. If there was a brief religous oppression of science, you'd have small groups of scientists sharing their papers over the equivalent of the internet. And they probably wouldn't call it the Oppressed Society for Science.

They'd choose uncommon words to reflect what they are without giving the game away to the 'authorities'. In fact, keep them repressed for a while, and they'd almost start to treat it as a religion. So, some sample names:

the Erudite Sodality
the Assembly of Scholastic Acumen
the Sagacious Brotherhood

or even any mix of those.

[Cogburn]

the Erudite Sodality


I'm really feelin that one.

ERUDITE (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=erudite) SODALITY (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=sodality)

Click each word for a definition. ;)

[Cl2v2r]

Yeah, I like that one too.

[abathur]

Though I would be concerned with the accessibility of the vocabulary. I went through a few good names for the technocrats and the religious nuts that were short and descriptive, but I didn't feel the vocabulary would be anything most people are going to understand without a dictionary.

Other potential basis for a faction might be (reaching back more) something like that of ghengis khan's mongolian empire (which employed cavalry tactics still taught today, psychological warfare, their armies had incredible self-sufficiency etc.) Just a thought.

[Cyclis]

I personally would still hold out for an Alien race. Not only does it compound our science fiction roots, but if provides an interesting opportunity to design non-human weaponry, biology, culture etc. A little variety never hurt.

This is something I wrote for the background story but I never really got around to finishing it and then of course you guys just about finalized the basics of it. I present it mainly as an example of the sort of atmosphere I had envisioned for the Alien race, one of almost total inhumanity. I thought it would be interesting that instead of trying to explain away their actions, maybe they don't need a real reason to kill humans. Maybe to them it's like killing a bees nest, you do it because it's there and because bees are pests.



“…And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hell followed with him…

..The stars of the sky fell to the earth..

..Every mountain and island were moved out of their places..

..for the great day of his wrath has come; and who is able to stand?”

Revelations 6:8-6:17





_________________________________________________



I haven’t much time.

The klaxons three floors below have fallen silent- I didn’t expect them to advance so quickly, but I suppose I might have known better. The doors will hold them, though how long I can’t guess.

Words, so many words I still need to write! Dear Alizae, if I had years I could only begin to fully tell the story. I must summarize, but I’m sure even my watered down tale will provide you with clearer information than the butchered version taught in schools.

Since the birth of our species, Earth was our home. You’ve seen pictures of it in children’s books, and on the anscreen, but these artistic recreations cannot capture the true nature of what it once was like. Even myself, after devoting years of study to all artifacts that remain of life there have been unable to fully imagine the planet as it once was- full of life, lush and verdant. Holding a thriving populace, host to a virile species that grew in leaps and bounds..

Even now I grow misty eyed at the thought. How many times I’ve wished to have seen that Earth of distant memory. But as usual, reality intrudes. The feelings of Earth may escape me, but the facts do not.

The technology of the human race had increased steadily over the course of the millennia- man mastered his world. And after he had conquered all he could see and touch on the Earth around him, he turned to the stars.

Mankind reached its first tentative fingers into the galaxy. Planets were discovered, star systems were mapped and catalogued. Great progress was made in exploration. The universe no longer seemed so large a mystery.

But out of all the planets we had charted, none of them could harbor life. Humans were stretching the limits of their living space. The cities were crowded, land fast becoming increasingly expensive and rare. It was clear that while there was no true danger yet, eventually mankind would need to look for other homes amongst the stars.

Man would never have that chance.

Time had caught up with our species- the sun was dying. This was no surprise, for it had been known for thousands of years that Sol was fading. The average yearly temperatures of the globe steadily decreased as the heat of the star waned. Winter consumed the other seasons. The equator had already begun to see snowfall many, many years before- by the time the true focus of my tale occurs, much of the northern and southern ends of the world were buried in ice, the seas had begun to freeze, and all of humanity was staring death in the face.

It was clear that our only choice lay in exodus to the stars. With the local star systems devoid of life supporting planets, man would strike out blindly in search of some other harbor beyond the known universe.

A massive project began, consuming nearly all remaining resources and conscripting every man, woman and child capable of working into the fold. A fleet of starships were to be built, with enough life support to sustain those aboard for decades, or even longer if necessary. All of mankind was told they would find a new existence somewhere far from the icy wasteland of Earth.

All of mankind was lied to.

There weren’t enough ships for everyone. When the day of the launch finally came it did so without warning for two-thirds of the world population. The starships were for the rich, the privileged, the policy makers. The billions left behind watched their hope as it blazed up and away through the atmosphere, the fire of the rockets fading away to leave them in the cold.

Your great-grandfather was onboard one of those starships. As you know they settled here, on Novus, and built the world you have lived in.

But in our self-proclaimed utopia we forgot where we came from, and what we left behind.

The pounding cannot be more than a few hallways down now, I must be brief-

The billions left to freeze on Earth burrowed deep down to survive, closer to the core where heat still lingered. There they pirated technology from the surface and unbeknownst to us built a fleet of their own. Revenge is now their creed, they burn with it. As you already know, they followed our warp distortions, the fluctuations left like contrails in the wake of our supercruisers. The reemerged some five years ago on the rim of our controlled space and immediately set to tearing down our empire.

Alone, they could perhaps have been beaten. If we had acted swiftly enough, our technological advantage would have been enough to overwhelm their sheer numbers. But unforeseen events intruded and now that advantage is being taken from us as they capture and bend our inventions to their needs.

Yes, unforeseen! And who could have known? Who could possibly have known? Not a warning had we as they stormed from somewhere beyond the rim. Not a whisper or shadow of foresight. But I speak not of the Abandoned, no.. They are fearsome and twisted in their infinite anger, but still human.

Some six months ago installations near the Beta Centari began losing contact with Central, blinking out like stars on the map. Something was swallowing our border bases whole. We assumed it was the Abandoned, swerving around known space to hit on our flank but we were wrong.. Something far darker consumed them, and now I fear it is my turn to go not gently into the night.

They are at the end of the hall now. Alizae, be strong for your mother. She will need you.

We don’t know what they are, or what they want. Not a word has been spoken between us and our silent enemy, not the briefest contact made.

Black ships. A fearful asymmetry at work in the architecture, something the human eye can barely follow. I saw them tear our outer defenses apart. The men on the border ships were screaming. My God, I can only hope they did not suffer for long.

I do not know why they did not simply destroy this place. It is as if they are looking for something. In mere minutes I may well be the first man ever to lay eyes on these creatures in their naked form. It is an honor I could do without.

They are at the door.


END TRANSMISSION

[abathur]

I've already discussed a design for a storyline based intervention (down the line, not really an expansion as much as an easter-egg) by an alien race into the fight. Unless cogburn has bastardized that into rabid scrotum eating dustbunnies. :p

The basic concept is one of aliens as a non-major faction who are physically weak themselves, but have a great amount of bloodlust. They really enjoy killing, but aren't all that capable to kill large prey. Looking for a bigger high, they come in search of a symbiotic relationship with skilled combatants. Basically, they come in once people start hitting high ranks (randomly, mind you, not as soon as you level, or even within a day) and comically abduct you, then give you an offer to leave behind your command abilities, your player group for the following:

Alien symbiont hops onto your back/shoulders, forces some shit into the back of your head/neck and wires itself into your nerves. It doesn't control you, it's just experiencing your kills through your own eyes, nose, ears, mouth, limbs, mind. In exchange for toting him around and giving up your leading ability/player groups you get:

- hacked back into the systems of various factions as a mercenary type force--mercenaries are distributed evenly when populations are within a few percent. Someone drops behind by 5% or so and the mercenaries get sent to that side, up to 33%. (so essentially you can play and access all empires equipment at various times, in fact when the populations are practically even some amount of player choice may be given.)
- access to some of their own weaponry that has been hacked into the system, and is only usable due to your relationship with the symbiont and the transference of knowledge (that is to say, you can't drop it and let bob use it. The weaponry is _exclusive_
- possibility of the luxury of transport to combat via alien craft to speed up your depoyment and thus get the sapients fix faster.
- access to alien inspired vehicles in a similar way as the weapons
- possibility of other avenues of advancement available only to the "mercenary" group, to somewhat replace the lost avenues for command advancement

I prefer this over an alien based empire because:
1. it still lets us play with alien weaponry
2. I think this is a more unique and creative method for bringing them in
3. it provides an opportunity to save us from some of PlanetSide's population balance pitfalls.
4. provides yet another method of getting solo-killwhores who don't really care as much about leading or community as they do toys out of the command structure...
5. It's the ultimate easter egg.
6. I'm a pretty pretty princess and I fucking say this way is incredibly awesome. :p

Standards for who the aliens take, or how often they take people in general could be adapted based on the recent balance-over-time (the less often you need a large amount of mercenaries for faction balance the less often you bring in more people and the more exclusive a group it is.

[Aftiel]

I do like that concept Ab. I could imagine that the mercs would become a hated force but at the same time that's what gives a game life. Question: I'm assuming mercs could not form companies/houses since they might be split, or would those groups shift sides together?

[TangoWhiskey]

Offered for consensus.* If I'm the only one that likes this, no sweat:

One thing I don't like about PS is the perpetuity with no real results.* I spent a weekend once slugging it out on some continent, finally getting in with a sizable force to take some base, only to have to rinse and repeat later.* After a while, the question "What's the point?" really does make its presence known.* (Yes, the point is lots of shooting and capping - but there could be more.)

What about the idea of Perpetuity with reset?* WW2OL does this succesfully.* One side or the other actually wins and the game is reset.

In Cogburnside, the doomsday weapon could be that ultimate victory.* The objective for each empire would be to sieze and hold the weapon for a period of time, at which point it activates and obliterates the other two and then we reset.* The hold period could be something substantial like a week and a single "battle for the weapon" could last weeks or even months.

This would do a couple things.* First, it gives empire members a real basis for bragging rights and a strategic goal - a reason to fight besides XP.* Second, it mixes up the strategic focus.* In the beginning, it will be every empire for itself as they fight through each other to get to the weapon.* After on empire has siezed the weapon, the other two will naturally align until the weapon either activates or the holding empire is kicked off.* Kind of like a big king of the mountain.

Plot wise, imperial forces sieze control of the weapons cache at which time their scientists are brought in to figure it out.* Can you hold off the enemy so your scientists have time to finish their work and bring lasting peace and domination to the world?

--------------

Given the rancor of this thread, let me make it clear that I like this idea, but I'm not married to it.* if it's a non-starter, no problem.* If it has merit, great.*

P.S. - and how about Tellurous, Durangite and Aspern? ;) (Yes, that's a joke.)

[Cogburn]

Other potential basis for a faction might be (reaching back more) something like that of ghengis khan's mongolian empire (which employed cavalry tactics still taught today, psychological warfare, their armies had incredible self-sufficiency etc.) Just a thought.


*WARNING WARNING WARNING INCOMING BASTARDIZATION*

MechWarrior had a group called the Clans which had a military-centric social structure and were ruled by a Khan.

I only mention this because a commercial product has utilized this theme to great success.

This one is definately in the running.

So we have:

The Czarists - no so popular

and

The Mongols - new idea and a market proven winner

Any other suggestions?

[GreatMazinkaiser]

Chinese would make for a more regal army, provided you stick with the whole Dynastic feel. Allows for clan structure, maybe some infighting (storywise, a.k.a. Romance of the three Kingdoms), kick ass armour designs, and sweet names for vehicles like "Fei Long" and shit...

*note: I do not pretend that this post is intelligent or makes sense

[Iceonix]

Alright. I have read through all the threads in this forum and have some comments, questions, and the like. Unfortunately I feel like I have missed out on some of the discussion since I only discovered this forum THIS MORNING before I ran off to work. But, alas, I shall continue with the topic on hand: that last Empire and abathur's symbionts.

I believe a military-centered faction much like those found in the Clans of MechWarrior would work. Needing to build a society in a hostile world would mean you would have to survive. And to survive you have to fight. At its beginnings culture is its most brutal. Without the constraints of society holding you back everything would fall back to survival of the fittest. If fighting was your way of life it would definitely be something society could reward you for. Be elite, be decorated, and you would find yourself at the top of the social pecking order. Then when war erupts on your borders you just go down and do your thing. As far as fictional tie-ins go this could be the culture that evovles out of the colony once order is lost. For a warrior there is no greater accomplishment than victory. After an extended period of time separated from outside influences they can develop their own society.

We can have the technofreaks, the returning Religious/Political faction (Remnant is a great name), and the warrior nation that they create with their Shcizm.

I like Abathur's idea for a potential "upgrade" by choosing symbiosis after a while. What I don't like is the idea of running around with a shriveled lump of alien hanging off my back. Couldn't we do something with them being ethereal and "possessing" your body? Since this is space couldn't we just assume life can exist beyond the physical form? I'm not so sure about switching sides even when pops are down. Some people will have resignations about leaving their "team" behind.

I'm not sure what we would name our other factions. But something that most people could pick up and understand easily. I'm not even going to guess how many people had problems with Soverignty and Conglomerate, much less "Erudite Sodality".

As far as fiction goes:

-Can we avoid the whole giant-cannon thing? I would prefer an orbiting platform. They can play it off as a space station or something until the Gates crash. Maybe a system of satellites could also orbit the planet with unknown capabilities and gameplay tie-ins (intel, weapons, resources once you capture a corresponding facility). I'd like to see some mention of those because to this day I still wonder where those OSes come down from. Plus a "giant cannon" sounds kinda out-dated.

-If the planet everyone is on is so full of resources why does it sound like a cataclysm once the Gate collapes? Unless it physically kicks the crap out of the planet I'm sure the people would be able to at least survive.

-It's not hard to imagine things that could internally weaken The Order so that its rival faction can gain power on a remote planet. I don't think it is too far-fetched for the mega-corporation to get full of themselves to the point of trying to take it over. Then a timely apocolyse happens and BAM. Every team for itself. The Remnant return to avenge their over, the technophiles try to regain the power they so recently took, and the colonists want to liberate themselves.

[abathur]

Posession is boring (and creates continuity problems with you retaining control) not to mention it severely lessens the omgwtflawl factor of the first few people finding the easter-egg.

Of course, not everyone will take it... that's the point. It's that contingent of players who will bite on this who tend to be problematic for an empire to deal with when the empire is trying to get things done. When you're outnumbered, however, you're likely on the defense, and it's likely you'll need people who can kill shit well, and live for doing so. The goal isn't to create a full empire of them, just a few % of the playing population that can be used to pad for playerbase shifts. Not to mention getting the people who are all about killing and fun toys away from command type abilities just for the sake of having more toys (proliferation of CR5s who want OSes yet feel they need to speak their minds even though they have little strategic grasp (though they may have a sound tactical gras (I love nesting parentheticals (conventions be damned.)))

It doesn't have to look like a dead squid on your back... it could be done well.

The whole cannon bit was from my original fiction (designed as a "doomsday device" of un-named operational methods at that time, intended to destroy an incoming meteor.) In the context of game fiction I was intending for there to be multiple (# depending on how hard assembly was desired to be) number of parts from the weapon hidden by the hermit/protector/seer in remote locations of various planets. This would probably be the type of thing left out of official game fiction so players can figure it out themselves. The "doomsday device" would more or less need to be placed in orbit (or on an orbiting object such as a moon) to justifably hit the planet we're fighting on (since we'll be on continents of just one rather than fighting on multiple.)

Assembly of the parts would require they all actually be found and transported to the site. Once found the pieces would be like persistant artifacts that must be stored in special places (or any base?) until a team can attempt to collect them all and prepare to re-assemble the weapon and use it on their enemies. Once assembled the weapon would not be an end-game but still rather game-altering in operation (Cogburn and I discussed functionality like that of the monolith events (that is, the ability to fire it at a continent and force it neutral, presumably in our case also clearing all resources, possibly destroying anything outdoors on the continent.)) Firing would have a hefty cooldown timer but whoever controlled the weapon could use it, so long as the cooldown timer was up. It would also be possible to raid the gun and re-steal pieces in raids and then cart them off, but there would be a limit on how many could be carried and presumably some limits on what would be required to even crack automated defenses nearby so one bored dick can't cart them all off overnight.

In the end, like the alien bit I was hoping this would be something somewhat secretive that players have to figure out and is rather persistant as they start to. Pieces may be rather well hidden (and in some cases may be exposed by active resource mines (but remain hidden in the mineshafts.) etc. I've always wanted to see more large things that could practically qualify as events but are to some extent player-triggered--and don't tell the players it's there. Hell, it could be a year into the game before the pieces are found and someone puts 2 (or 45) together to get the weapon functioning and I'd be cool with it. Not to mention the kind of hype and creative playing putting things like that in the game generates. Really draws players in and keeps the environment from feeling so static. (wouldn't CC have seemed much more interesting if they had genuine cavelike entrances, they never told us they'd been added to the game and slowly people stumbled on the various entrances?) Anyways, the intent of this is not supposed to be OS justification, but something much bigger (at least, as I designed it, *cough*)

[Cogburn]

As an effort to refocus the conversation....

Seems like we are leaning to Mongol/Clan design for the 3rd Empire.

What is the 3rd Empire called?

What are we going to name our Technocracy?

Answer those two questsions and let's move on to something else.

[Cl2v2r]

As an effort to refocus the conversation....

Seems like we are leaning to Mongol/Clan design for the 3rd Empire.

What is the 3rd Empire called?

What are we going to name our Technocracy?

Answer those two questsions and let's move on to something else.


3rd Empire: The Golden Horde (from a little Mongolian/Russian history)

Technocracy: Erudite Sodality (Cos I love it)

[Reydar]

Here is a thought...

If you go with the 3 factions

Religious Zelots (spiritualists who believe in the great divine power created all things)
Technocrats (believe that Science truly holds the answer to the mysteries of Life)
Nomads (vengeful people who are pissed at the other 2 factions for fucking up the world)

You can frame the conflict as follows:

Throughout the centuries... Tensions escalate between Religion and Science factions.

Conflict eventually breaks out between the Religious and Technologist
(driven by Sciencific breakthroughs in Cloning, Bio Engineering... Discovery of an Alien
Starship/Technology located beneath the Polar IceCap.... Maybe the Religious Zelots find Shaka-Ri... yada, yada, yada ).

The conflict escalates to the point where Nuclear/Biological warfare ravages the planet.

Enter the 3rd Faction... The NOMADs. People who don't give a shit about Science or Religion but get displaced due to the Global Thermonuclear/Biogenic War.
The Nomads are pissed off at the other 2 Factions for Fucking up the World/Worlds...

This sets in motion a solid motive for the hatred between the 3 groups which is not Racial or Political.

Regards,
Reydar

[RebelCommander]

Reydar's got a point there... That IS a good way to implement the hatred for the 3rd faction. They got the fuckstick, so they're bound to hand one back out.

[UGoBoy]

I do dig the whole "Golden Horde" thing.* Though using either "Horde" or "Erudite" in the game will get catcalls from WoW and EQ players, respectively :P

If the religious angle of the Remnant is retained, one way to integrate the Mongol empire would be to paint them as religious outcasts.* The Mongol emperors were of varying religions over the years, so getting too specific isn't neccessary (all the better when it comes to religion).* Paint them as a cult of personality that was boiling beneath the surface of the old republic's oligarchic rule.* Spread across several planets, forming into cells and small armies, waiting for the day to attempt to topple a society that they had decided was infidelic.* Eventually, however, one ruler saw a better way...use the vast infiltration of the cult into the military and transport arms of society, and wholesale lift a great portion of his followers into a relatively inaccessible area of space through an elaborate series of thefts, hijackings, mutinies, and terrorist actions.

On that day, almost two million followers struck forth into space.* Casualties among the cult were heavy...many transports were destroyed, mutinies put down, and thousands were incarcerated to later be grilled by the Inquisition.* However, several hundred thousand followers simply disappeared, and no amount of torture would reveal their destination, as the followers were never told where they were going.

The escapees destination was a series of asteroids and small planetoids...regarded as inhospitable by the settler corporations.* The fugitives began a hardscrabble life, utilizing what stolen technology they had brought with them to slowly make several of the planetoids hospitable enough to live upon.* It was here that the former leader's name falls out of history, and the reign of the first New Mongol Khan, Suren Arslan begins.* In the many years since their arrival, and despite the flakey, half-cocked nature of their venture, the New Mongul Empire has grown across the asteroid belt, and now has a formidable, if somewhat dated, manufacturing base created from the remains of ships damaged in the exodus, and from the abundance of minerals to be mined from the asteroids.* Though they figure themselves as an empire, their actions paint them as pirates and thieves, making long, winding excursions into the space near battlefields to hijack warships and cargo vessels.

And now, after several hundred years of guarded seclusion in the shadows of the Temur Belt, the youngest and most ambitious of the New Mongol Khans, Tegus Unegetai, unfolds a plan to take a new imperial homeworld and sieze a weapon that could possibly make the New Mongols a force to be feared.

---

Er...my brainstorming got a little out of hand ;P

[RebelCommander]

But again, a good story to go on.

I think Cog and Ab both will agree, that's pretty much the kind of background we were looking for for a third empire. Nothing to hardcore, that required a lot of explaining, but also one that wasn't TOO vague.

[Kyraal]

I do dig the whole "Golden Horde" thing. Though using either "Horde" or "Erudite" in the game will get catcalls from WoW and EQ players, respectively :P

*makes catcalls* :P

Seriously, though..

*makes more catalls*

Sorry, just can't.. help myself.. :-\

"Horde" and "Erudie" really are too much associated with WoW and EQ. They are really cool names, for sure, but as soon as I hear them I get a big flashback of orcs and Pizza Hut. Sodality is a kickass word, too, but the question is if people are going to appreciate having to grab their dictionary to know what the name of their faction stands for. I think this game is looking to be very complex as it is.

All great names, definitely, but I'm not.. feeling it, you know?

As for the choice of Mongolians. I'm still sitting here with one eyebrow shot upwards in surprise at all the people being for it, and the other pushed down in annoyance, as the Mongolians really.. just plain annoy me, ever since history lessons.

Yikes. I'm starting to sound a whole lot like abathur here ;)

[UGoBoy]

I think it's probably because the Mongolians were dirty bastards :P As people went, they were cruel, and their tactics were inhuman. But basically...that's what people like about them. A nomadic warrior state that prided horsemanship and accuracy with a bow over just about anything? Blitzkrieg tactics before there were tanks?

As far as a game entity, they compare pretty well with the Orks from Warhammer 20K...and who doesn't like running around beating stuff and yelling "WARG"?

From another standpoint, the concept makes for a fine counterpoint to the "refined" Holy Warriors of the Remnant, or the "precision" advanced troops of a Sodality. As a bonus, they already come with a mindset for their warfare, and some strong mental imagery :)

[abathur]

Ghengis Khan was an absolute fucking badass. However, more recent information and portrayals of him aren't so much a purpetrator of senseless violence as a brilliant leader. I believe there's only really evidence of more isolated slaughter of entire villages which ultimately resulted in the capitulation of many many others without a fight (if we're going to talk about barbaric this is the basic principle behind the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.) The tactics were mostly applications of already existing nomadic tactics, yet they were none the less used with brutal efficiency and combined with management and training that allowed each rider to have multiple horses and essentially ride for days straight (staying alive by bleeding but not killing the horse they were riding if necessary.

Absolute badass. Go do some more reading up on Ghengis, the mongolians and their tactics. (and re: blitzkrieg tactics, I believe I've heard that tactics they used are still taught to cavalry/tank crews today) Whether it's an ultimate decision or not, it's hard to consider past great military empires for influence without the Mongolian's making the list.

[Cogburn]

Oooooooooooooooook.....

First off... I never played EQ or WoW... so fuck em both. :)

If you missed it, we now have our 3 empires, 2 of them are as of yet unnamed.

Erudite Soldality: ST:TNG-style futuristic technophiles... Fuck dictionaries... I still can't spell soverignty
The Remnant: ComStar-like military religious order
The Golden Horde: Mongol/Clanner styled... Some object to "Horde"... but as I said.. fuck WoW...

So if you guys dont like the 1st and 3rd empire names lets get some final submissions and put this to bed. Otherwise we'll just keep what we have and press on.

[UGoBoy]

I was talking more about the image "mongul" brings up in the minds of most people. Thanks to the depiction of the Mongols from the European states, most people see the Mongols as barbaric raiders...and truthfully, they did their fair share of death and desolation tactics. Even if they didn't slaughter entire villages as often as is purported, seeding the ground with salt wasn't exactly uncruel either :P The fact that several of the Khans were brilliant strategists and canny statesmen just gives credence that a monomaniacal cultist leader would want to fashion his "regime" in something of their image. The fact that the Khans themselves bounced around between several religions over the course of the Empire doesn't hurt either.

This particular tidbit also allows us some breathing room, as far as story goes...the people that are portraying themselves as "monguls" are probably not even directly related, and are separated from their source material by thousands of years. While we can try to stick to something resembling accuracy, we can also write off any gaffes in naming or religious beliefs to the New Mongol leadership putting their own agenda over popular beliefs/fictions about the Mongols proper.

[Kyraal]

As for the Mongol-inspired empire. I wouldn't mind snatching a name right off of the Firefly series: The Reavers.

[RebelCommander]

Oooh, good idea. We could pull in some misguided FireFly fans.

[Kyraal]

Might be too close to The Remnant now that I think about it.

The Reavers.. The Remnant.. The Reavers.. The Remnant.. hmm..

[RebelCommander]

Hey, the Vanu and the Van00bs work...



Oh, wait.

[abathur]

Don't like golden horde, still think erudite sodality is a bit much for people to bite off. I've got a pretty good vocabulary and I'd never heard either (of course, no EQ or WoW so I gather for other MMO players this may be no problem but for our FPS player constituencies this may not be that great. I'll try to come up with something when I have a bit of time.

[Kyraal]

The more I think of the Erudite Sodality, the better it rolls off my tongue. I think I'm for it. I'm just not too fond of The Golden Horde.

But yeah. Names, names, names.. I still think there's a need for more details surrounding the factions. Especially The Remnant. More specifically, what is their religion about? In some more detail.

[Cogburn]

I just keep thinking... ES... VS... The ripoff is so sweet it makes me smile when I think about it.

Like HAX instead of MAX.

As a programmer, that kind of tounge-in-cheek-inside-joke always appeals to me as long as its not TOO cheezy :)

[Cl2v2r]

If we don't like Horde, we can just civilize it a bit.

The Golden Assembly
The Golden Brotherhood (although i find Brotherhood to be a bit cheesy)

As for Erudite Sodality.. no it's mine.

And people don't have to know what they mean, though if they are interested in what they mean, they'll be pleasantly suprised.

What if 'Vanu' actually meant off-world or something in another language, that'd be a bonus, not a bad thing.

EDIT: Mine as in, it's mine, so we have to use it. Regardless of the EQ bitches. :P

[abathur]

If we don't like Horde, we can just civilize it a bit.

The Golden Assembly
The Golden Brotherhood (although i find Brotherhood to be a bit cheesy)

As for Erudite Sodality.. no it's mine.

And people don't have to know what they mean, though if they are interested in what they mean, they'll be pleasantly suprised.

What if 'Vanu' actually meant off-world or something in another language, that'd be a bonus, not a bad thing.

EDIT: Mine as in, it's mine, so we have to use it. Regardless of the EQ bitches. :P


Vanu is well explained in game fiction ;)

I don't really care for golden, moreso than object to horde (though it's been done a few times, so I'm not in love with it not to mention associations with "the mongolian hordes" which I've heard a few times but I'm not sure where.

[Cogburn]

The Galactic Tanistry

What is a "tanistry"?

"The rules of succession in Mongol government have been called 'tanistry.' This system is similar to natural succession, or survival of the fittest: a prospective Khan could win that position by wiping out his opposition and thus proving his worthiness. "
http://www.healylaw.com/mongol.htm


The name of the empire is indicitive of thier attitude and social structure. Miles of fiction could be generated based on the machinations and plots of one GT General manuevering to unseat another...

[Cl2v2r]

People were objecting to the horde part, so I thought I'd change it. As for golden, well if I'd known I would've changed that too. :P

Really we could even have a name like... Fleeblebob Scrubberbunchery and it'd work. Just takes more effort in the fiction to explain, but afterwards Fleeblebob is acceptable to people.

Any name we choose will need fiction to back it up, some more than others.


As for Galactic Tanistry... I'm neutral. While I don't dislike it, I don't like it either. However, if it solves the name debate, coo.

[abathur]

Perhaps a better word in the place of galactic? (feels done, cliched)

[Bloodzero5]

Pre-Eminent Tanistry?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pre-Eminent

[abathur]

drop the "pre-" perhaps... Eminent Transitory

[Kyraal]

I think perhaps Eminent Transitory is to Erudite Sodality, what The Reavers is to The Remnant.

[Cogburn]

How about....

Draconis Tanistry

Confederated Tanistry

[ChayzB]

Confederated Tanistry



+1 vote

[abathur]

Descriptive, but I imagine they'd either be more grandiose or more cocky than confederated. Not that the concept is bad...

[Kyraal]

I imagine the Mongol-inspired faction to be a fierce, strong, albeit haughty and noble culture. It's a little bit of a stretch, but I think you can draw parallells with the Klingon race, of the Star Trek fame, but a bit more refined. Anyone else getting this, or a similar, mental picture?

[Aftiel]

I never really watched Star Trek but aren't the Klingon's arrogant SOBs?

[Cogburn]

Tanistry Federation?

[Iceonix]

Descriptive, but I imagine they'd either be more grandiose or more cocky than confederated. Not that the concept is bad...


Exactly what I was thinking. Something noble.. something elite... I would suggest something but my vocab has shrunk since I stopped doing things like reading and going to school ::)

[Aftiel]

you could go with...

Neo Tanistry
Imperial Tanistry

Will edit with others as I think of em.

[Xae]

The Tanistry

[UGoBoy]

Vachir Tanistry. Vachir being a Mongolian word for "thunderbolt".

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html

[Xae]

Vachir Tanistry. Vachir being a Mongolian word for "thunderbolt".

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html


Winner.

[Cogburn]

Vachir Tanistry.* Vachir being a Mongolian word for "thunderbolt".

http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/baras-aghur/mongolian.html


Winner.